Apologists Christianized culture urks guidance request
Q: I am uncertain how to word this for guidance; it will probably be fairly multi-faceted, and it needs a little personal history.
To begin, I was not raised in a Christian home, and I grew up in the 80s in the Pacific Northwest (where going to church was not a culturally "normal" thing to do like it is in, say, the south). I was saved at age 25 from a very dark place. Christ absolutely rescued me from complete despair. I do love Him so. ❤️
To fast-forward, I am currently an Apologetics grad student, and I live in So. KY. My husband is a native of KY and combined between the two of us (including portions of our married life), we have lived in 10 states from almost every region of the country. Since I became a Christian in 2000, I have lived in Oregon, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New York, and (for the past 2 years) Kentucky.
This is (kind of) my question (or problem, if that is a more accurate way to label it): I find myself increasingly annoyed, as I get older, with how Christianity is expressed in the very conservative pockets of America. [Before I go further, let me say that I am about as conservative as they come politically. I am very conservative biblically. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with conservatism. And I really want to be careful how I word this because I don't want to unintentionally hurt or offend.]
I have found (generally speaking) that many of the ways the Christian faith is presented or expressed in (typically) the Bible belt region of America is a huge turn-off to me.
I love Jesus and the Word of God. I am so thankful for all He has done for me. But I have soberly realized over the years that if I had grown up where I now live (as an unbeliever), I would probably have been hugely turned off from Christianity. And I wonder because of this feeling and thought... is there something wrong with me, is it terrible for me to feel or think this?
To be clear, it isn't being turned off from the Word of God. I love God's Word. I need Him and love Him as much as my pitiful heart is able. My feeling of being "turned off" is more from things that accompany some of what I would hesitantly label as "culturally shaped Christianity." While my husband has never fallen into this category, I would say many of his family members (whom I love dearly) do.
To give an example, many of them think funerals need to be a certain way that is--apparently-- a "Christian funeral". Or some of them think like it's bad for men to wash their own laundry because they think that's what women are supposed to do (and quite frankly, I find this unbiblical). Or they recommend books and movies that are "Christian" (and I think the plots are repetitively dull and woodenly predictable, not to mention the theology weak). One of them turned away a JW from his doorway because he wouldn't salute the American flag. A few have "pictures" of Jesus (what on earth did He look like?!) In homes or churches. One of them told me that their church "seems more spiritual" than ours because it has altar calls, people say "Amen" aloud in response to the pastor's teaching, and more people raise their hands during worship (to be fair, she wasn't pronouncing a judgment but saying it more like she was asking what I thought.)
I could go on with more examples. I really do believe these people love Jesus deeply and are very sincere followers of Christ. And to be fair, goodness knows that I have been guilty of speaking ungraciously or representing Christ in a poor way (especially as a younger believer, but of course even now).
I have more examples of things that rub me the "wrong way": Sometimes I find the way Christian things are worded on billboards is a bit silly, or even unhelpful in evangelism. I find listening to most (not all) contemporary Christian music about as appealing as eating plywood (since its become junk). And I typically am not a fan of Christian "youth activities" in churches today such as my 14yo daughter would be invited to attend (there are some notable exceptions to these).
Still, it remains: If I had been raised in this kind of Christian subculture, I think I would have been hugely turned off from Christianity (finding it dull, unintellectual, wooden, and a bit phony). And I can't help but feel like maybe I am not being fair or maybe there is something wrong with my faith.
Am I alone? Thanks.
A: Most of these issues are dealt with in maturing in the faith, and having a gospel mindset. But also in their maturing as well.
The truth is, People come to Christ because God saves them.
He works all things out & his will/plan is accomplished.
People grow in faith and in time, and God shows them a lot of those things are not right or accurate, and they grow and go from there.
Its good America has a Christian foundation and some areas still have more of a influence. However if their wrong in presenting, or picking on non essential things, their pastor should address it. Yes many billboards are wrong, as are supposed funny church signs etc, and thats due to the false modern gospel [and 😬 the fact that 63% of churches are run by "pastors" that shouldn't be in the pulpit since they don't hold to the authority of Scripture, doesn't help. "As the pastor goes so does the congregation." Plus, many pastors have been unfluenced by the wishy washy and bad ideas from a certian book heavily promoted in 2005, and sadly colleges & seminaries for pastors followed suit... so they pump out these bad things nationally into churches; including bad youth group stuff, and it trickled into CCM too].
As to thesw culture & subculture isdues in regions and states in America I see it like this... on issues of liberty, it's not a hill worth dying on. It can be discussed between you and another believer on how you see something/why you have a diff view, (yours may be the proper biblical view), but the focus in convos needs to be on ones salvation and growth when talking to "Christians"; we should encourage one another in love. It's a sad truth that most aren't saved in churches today in Bible belt and in other areas too, so its necessary and should be our focus, as they're false converts in pews who came via a false gospel and are just idolatrous moralists. They need true salvation.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:2 said
"For I determined not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ and him crucified." So make Christ the focus of your interactions...
Turn from the useless urksome things to always in your encounters "probe their salvation". Since those professing may be totally clueless that they're in danger of Matt 7, blindly thinking theyre good to go. So...Ask why they came to Jesus, ask for their testimony. See how & what ways they were transformed after salvation, how they grew in faith and holiness the first few years, and how has it grown/changed now currently? It should continually progress. You can share that you share the Gospel with people and you find many in the church are unsure of their salvation. Share/show the needGod.com video with them and ask if that's the clear understanding they have of the Gospel they obeyed, or if it was never clearly presented to them like that before(?). Ask if they are certian of their salvation or want to get right with God today after learning the biblical Gospel.
Since there's openness with those in the so-called Christian community of the Bible belt [or anywhere], you can probably be effectivly ised by God in helping make sure those in the pews are saved. And also...since God saves, it doesn't matter if you're discussing this with conservatives or progressives. If progressives come to Christ, they can be redirected to a biblical church in the area.
Apologetics to me is both for non believers and believers, as those in church also have lots of questions that are similar to skeptics or religionists. For those among them not saved it helps lead them to truth, for those saved it helps solidify their faith, having a conundrum or difficultuly cleared up.
But [noting since your education is in apologetics] I believe it's more important to deal with the conscience using the Gospel, than to focus on apologetics (the intellectual side), because its the Gospel that has the power to save. Arguing about this or that in apologetics bypasses the important function of the conscience and leads to endless debates.
As 2 Timothy 2:23 notes
"But avoid foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they generate strife."
...It wastes time. When a apologetically argument goes on a rabbit trail or starts to, circle back to the Gospel. If their objection is later still that important you can address it after the Gospel convo if they bring it up. Usually it's just a ruse in the convo to deflect their sin and accountability to God. As they have no intention or desire as a dead sinner to turn to God. But the Gospel confronts that and them...and thus can lead to salvation.
The hill to die on is the Gospel, ....and heresy. If their understanding is wrong we can like as with Apollos correct it, or show a consideration to what your sharing in truth, and leave it with God. Those saved will like Bereans look into a matter. If its not a sin then leave it in liberty and grace.
If you focus on those things, you'll be a blessing to them and a useful servant to God. 😊✨️
Hope this helps
God bless
Others helpful comments:
My go to response is it a sin or a preference?
As Christians we are called to give grace and often that ends up being given to believers more.
Sometimes it is cultural, sometimes it is a maturity issue. I try to live life on what God thinks and not others and hope others do the same.
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I know what you mean, this can be difficult. But God has said we “must”(must according to the dictionary-“to be obliged or bound to by an imperative requirement”)love our brothers and sisters in Christ in word and deed.” 1 John 4:21. That is a command. Our focus needs to be always seeking His face. Think of this, God sees us in all of our ugliness, sinfulness, and self righteousness. And he died for all of that. If He forgives us we must (again)show mercy to others. He loves the praises of his people, so even if we don’t like the music we continue to praise him. We focus on him. My son that doesn’t go to church any more has brought up many of your same complaints. I want to say this in love, as I did my son. Who do you think you are? We can’t place ourselves as superior over our brothers and sisters, as if we are the only ones getting it right.
James 4:10 says “humble yourself before the Lord and He will lift you up.” If you have a spouse, they do things that bug you, but you learn to overlook most of those things, because we know their heart and we are committed to them.
Eph 4:32
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.” I have to check my thoughts like this myself all the time.
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I guess I have a different take on what you’re describing. Why does this stuff “annoy” you? Someone said to pray for those who are doing the annoying things, but honestly, I would pray for myself in this situation and ask, why am I so annnoyed by these people? And God, hep me have grace and compassion.
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The issues you are describing aren’t salvation issues, they’re people issues. Every single one of us has habits and characteristics that annoy other people, including you.
I’ve learned that sometimes, the person who annoys me has been through something painful or terrible or that made them act certain ways. Over and over, when I’ve taken time to know someone better my heart does a 180° and I’m able to have grace.
There are a lot of things in our Christian culture that I don’t agree with. I’m 68 and have come to the conclusion after being saved for 47 years that Christ wants me to be faithful and obedient to His Word. I can disciple people to follow him, but everyone is different and have their own opinions and preferences. Christianity in the US can be superficial and shallow. We are in a Gospel centered church where the Word is preached straight and true. I do ministry where I believe the Lord has gifted me. Our church is large running between 400-450 and growing. In a church this size, I know there are folks who have different ideas on music, movies, dress, etc. But, I think we’re to do what the Lord convicts us to do, keep our eyes on Him and not let other people get to us. Let God work on them through your prayers.
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I get it! I have lived in Southern KY my entire life surrounded by cultural Christianity including a lot of my family. I almost walked away from Christianity because all I was ever presented was surface and shallow (cultural Christianity mixed with Word of Faith) and I was going through a very dark time where I needed the true gospel but didn’t know that’s what I needed. I just remember thinking either Christianity doesn’t “work” or there is something so wrong with me that God doesn’t hear my prayers. The Lord graciously opened my eyes to the truth through apologetics and through the American Gospel documentary and I cannot express how our lives have changed! God is so gracious and merciful.
All that said, I (we) struggle with a lot of what you mentioned. For example, one of my family members was losing her mind that my lost adult son was no longer politically conservative…I mean, he’s lost and needs the gospel and needs Jesus and that’s what she is concerned with!? I am politically conservative myself but my eyes are opened to reality. My allegiance is with Christ, not a political party. (Though I believe if one’s allegiance truly is with Christ they will vote for what most aligns with Biblical values such as saving the unborn, etc.). A lot of people I personally know conflate Christianity and politics. I believe your politics will definitely flow from your Christianity but should not be conflated. The cross is not wrapped in the American flag. But people I know and love see it that way. It is unfortunately not just a myth.
Another interesting fact, our pastor (who is the first biblically solid pastor we have ever had) was a missionary in Romania for 10 years and has done mission work elsewhere. He said the hardest people group that he has experienced, when it comes to breaking through their deceptions and misunderstandings of God and the gospel is people in the Bible belt. He feels a real burden to help open people’s eyes to the gospel and to inspire them to love God’s Word. We are seeing true changes little by little.
Keep praying for people. God can change hearts. I’m praying for a lot of people around me too. Be encouraged!
🙏 ❤️
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I was raised in this kind of subculture! Although it took me a little bit of time to discover what my faith means to me personally, as opposed to my culture and surroundings, I am a solid Christian. I definitely went through a time of disentangling Christianity from culture, but I never left the faith or deconstructed. I am grateful for having grown up in the church and being taught Scriptures, hymns, and creeds from an early age.
I am currently serving overseas, and my understanding of conservative American Christian culture has helped me better understand various international cultures as well.
I would encourage you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your faith! I would urge you to demonstrate graciousness and compassion toward the people around you, while also not blindly accepting the things they are telling you.
Keep in mind that we can’t separate Christianity from culture. Our faith will always be lived out in the context of our culture. What we wear, how we sing, how we baptize or take the Lord’s supper, what translations we read from… These are all liberty & cultural. But we are to constantly seek and ask God to refine us, stripping away any thing that is sinful, and leaving instead the beauty found within the various tribes and tongues in which he has placed us! He will accomplish that in us.
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I can totally understand. I feel that tension and sometimes frustrations. I was born in West Africa were i lived as a child. Then spent my youth and now adulthood in America. Sometimes it does feel like Christianity is presented like an "American Tradition" only. While I am very conservative myself, (as are most Africans, because in west Africa, conservatism is cultural, and the norm, it's not necessarily religious or Christian per say. My great grandparents were conservative even before Christianity came to their village.) I sometimes struggle with the way the conservative evangelicals or Christian in the USA present Christianity. Sometimes it really does feel very ethnocentric and lacks consideration for other cultural expressions. And I'm already walking the line of trying to understand how to filter out the african traditional religions and culture that go against scripture, while also living in the Buckle of the Bible Belt in the US, and trying to filter out the responsibilities of biblical Christianity from any added American traditions that might have no value.
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