Guidance handling Charismatic conversations

Encountering professing believers....

Did I handle this well, what should I know and how to better handle such interactions in the future?

Guy and his wife saw me at elevator, walked over, approached me and he said something like "sister" saying he discerned me to be a believer. [It wasnt till after the whole convo and i left, went into the elevator & was gone, that I realized he approached me cuz i had a long dress on. Like penticostal women might wear. They dont own the modest look, but they overdo by looking scruffy frumpy like. My hair was up so he wouldn't know it was long, but again not an indicator of a penticostal. It's normal women look, for non weirdo liberals.]. It's just a regular Christian modest look.

He noted he was "penticostal", so I wondered where the convo was going to go. Since I identified as a believer it likely wouldn't be to try to convert me to Christ, maybe to try to lure naive folk into their false beliefs, but that wouldn't work on me. I wondered if they just show up here to try to proselytize folk, or if he just wanted to "chat" with intentions of try to impart some false info to me 🙄, [& lure me into his cult (&its beliefs)].

After him approaching and saying his perception, I replied yes, a Christian. He said what kind. Im thinking theres only one kind. I said Christian; all true Christians hold to the essentials of the Gospel, its what makes us Christian [i wasnt meaning how one gets saved, i meant litmus test], saying its what unites is. Unity. He then asked what church I go to and I said it. I figured he would flee me right then, cuz im at a church that teaches truth 😂. But he never heard of it apparently, cuz he kept talking. He asked what office I hold there. I told him I dont know what he means. Then he started rattling off Apostle, prophet, evangelist etc. I said, I dont. Just a regular believer. [He wasnt focused rightly on serving gifts but wanted to be puffed up in pride to declare what he us as if its some high position that demands respect]. He said hes an Apostle. I said, oh, well that position isnt available today, many gifts have ceased. He didn't understand so his wife said "ceased/dont exist", and I said Those gifts were only for a time, until the Qord of God was complete. We have the Bible now, God's full revelation. I tried to go into how theres 12/13/14 Apostles who were taught by snd with Christ. To say Judas was out, Matthias grafted in [I didn't think of ir add Paul till after our convo kn reflection]. But trying to explain there are 2 kinds of apostles; the 12 and lowercase apostles [all believers; in the general sense that we are disciples following Him.], but he wouldn't hear it. He kept talking over me mind blown unhappy that I would claim his "gift"/position doesnt exist. [Truthfully he was a liar]. I [tried to get him to hear me out a minute to clarify the 2 types, and Apostles as a title only belings to the ones i noted above, but he wouldnt listen]. In speaking i hoped he would get a glance at what i was saying and reslixe he was being unreasonable, not listening and misundetstanding. He wouldnt even listen [as belligerant ear ticklers do]. Hoping he would tho, and knowing his wife was listening [wishing she would ask him to calm down and that he was misunderstsnding my point.... I said sir Apostles were only with/ in Jesus time. Not today. Hes in Heaven now. - well that set him off llike something 🎆.... he was ranting and raising his voice, looking like a madman. Going in and on. His wife just standing there to the side. I suppose if I had tried to address her and turn my back to him, he might listen to my point so a helpful convo could be had, but it didn't happen that way. Hindsight 😅. I knew before this point the convo would be a waste of time, but for the sake of others, since he walked off a short ways and came into range of 2 receptionists and a guy sitting alone in waiting chair, I continued so they wouldn't be duped. I had noted just earlier that hes not being reasonable. He was going off saying Jesus did return, since he talked with Peter. Im guessing he meant after his initially talking the paradise side of Sheol folk to Heaven, then returning and spent 40 days w the Apostles but then ascended again. I got a bit hung up on him saying Peter, that the just noted info wasnt on my mind and a few other things noted below too which I thought about afterwards.

I had noted Jesus isnt here reigning on earth physically, so he hasn't "returned" yet. [2nd coming].

But he went on then [in his still belligerent fit rant] saying God birthed Jesus, sent him here, like a father births a son. [I couldn't get in a word here to explain sent means going with authority, like the evil vineyard leaders in parable who killed the workers and was sent by the Father. Sons were given that task back then, they represented the full authority of the father]. He clearly has a very bad teacher and preacher in his older life if he believes these things.

Of course still not listening. I said Sir that's not accurate. Youre holding a unbiblical view. Jesus wasnt created by God, He is God and always was.. God is a trinity. [Of course we could discuss the nuances here if he had a open and learning spirit, even one that listens even if he disagrees. But he kept going on and on like a madman, so I said, sir youre not listening nor having a loving spirit here. And he went off again on love love, God is love etc. And as we were nearby the younger guy sitting, poor guy hearing all this, but seeing old guys not reasonable... I continued so the 3 nearby would hear abd nit be decieved, I said yes, but its truth in love. Its not absent the truth. [not a man made distorted understanding of love. Its not seperate from His other attributes]. He repeated his rant and I again said truth and love are together, [if he would listen I would explain you cant seperate God's attributes, nor a believers; communicable attributes work together]....and your not behaving like a Christian here. He went off on some related rant. I said sir your not listening and all I can say based on your argumentativeness is you're under a false teacher, youre not saying things in context of Scripture. You were taught things without the proper context and historical cultural background so what you read isnt what it really teaches/is saying. As he rambled on and as I said that, I just wanted the convo to end, thinking it was the right time.

Cuz he wasnt talking with a loving spirit, but a prideful divisive, close minded one.

Now I cant say [as only God knows] if penticostals/hes unsaved, so I cant say hes not saved and blinded by Satan holding to idolatry [false Christianity]. He might be saved and just decieved, or not saved, idolatrous and preferring ear tickling to pursue his sins in pride, position and power trips. He might be saved but in the flesh and in sin [clinging to those false teachings for similar reasons unsaved would]. Penticostals to me are a cult, full of deception. If hes oneness penticostal hes not saved cuz they are in a cult; have a diff god, dif gospel thus diff jesus too.

So in caution [cuz I love God, and dont want to wrongly condemn him, or speak wrong if God is in him, but hes grieving the Holy Spirit], I couldnt end by calling him a child of Satan, but I did say "sir youre decieved and decieving others, so its rebuke you, and call you to repent."

And I walked away, to the elevator, and went about my day, as he was still ranting. I guess he checked in with the receptionist. I did look at the seated guy a couple times, and he was looking our/my way. I just didn't want him to have a bad view of Christianity, Christians, and to recognize there are false teachers and professing believers out there who dont know Scripture, and perpetuate more false teaching deciev3d believers can hold to.

Hopefully he heard me earlier nearby noting Christians are united in the Essentials. If hes holding to something that fails the essentials test, hes not Christian. And since he noted penticostal beliefs up front, his beliefs likely might fail that test [depending on what he conversed about] which it did, thus showing I rightly noted theres false Christianity. Thus the discernment one needs so theyre not decieved [imagine if I was a naive new or weak believer, who mightve fallen for his deception and been led astray into his cult, by trying to "befriend & teach me"], and know truth so one could "test the spirits".

-I never raised my voice at him, [except very lightly when (1) asked him to be reasonable, to not misunderstand, (2)so to pls let me explain my point & not talk over me, (on which he was misunderstanding, as he continued on & wouldnt even consider it), (3) and to eventually point out hes trying to decieve; cuz that needs correction]. I was not unkind nor unloving, was very caring and had a heart to talk, even when he continually wasnt. He looked like a madman to me and likely everyone else tbvh.

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Notes to self.

(Asterisks are points in made in the convo).

Jesus did temp go to the Father

But Then....

*Jesus ascended - for real.

*He didn't come back after that.

*He isnt reigning here on earth right now.

We see this cuz He spoke to Paul from Heaven. Scripture is clear Jesus is reigning on the throne in Heaven right now.

He hasn't returned with the passed on believers and angels to war with the world, & reign here physically, and that means the tribulation era hasn't happened yet, nor the Rapture.

He is mediating before the Father for our behalf as Mediator and High Priest.

He sent the Holy Spirit to indwelling, seal, teach and guide us by the Scripture for Holy living [conforming us to Christlikeness], and to grow to know God more & more.

🤔 I think he might be in oneness penticostal (cult) cuz how he spoke (briefly) seemed to indicate non trinitarian. Idk. Maybe he was just taught goofy stuff from a bad or false teacher.

😟 His poor wife having to be married to a guy like that. She sat there (stood a few feet away from him) listening to me, as he was all over the place, but not saying anything to him... [which says a lot, even if she agrees with his beliefs].

If he was open, listened, considered another view, God could've used ut to educate him, but he remained hard hearted and closed, know it all. If he was open, even if he disagrees, I could point him to Strange Fire Conference messages, the book, and charismatic chaos, and Busenitz piece/message on the errors of charismaticism. To examine as a Berean.

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I think I did pretty well.

For cutting off quickly and moving on after he says something inaccurate and shows hes not open.... I hope to handle it differently.

I did also notice Charismatic "churches" seem to seperate Offices from Gifts, as if theres 2 kinds, and they do this so it fits their narrative & false teachings.

• Separation of Offices and Gifts:
Charismatics / Pentecostals often distinguish between the office someone holds (e.g., pastor, apostle, prophet) and the gifts they may exercise (e.g., tongues, prophecy, healing). That is, they act as if anyone with the office has authority, and anyone with a diff gift exercise it, as if there are two diff kinds of gifts.

Biblically the gifts and offices as not truly separate in purpose. Offices (like the pastor-teacher or evangelist) are established by God for the governance, teaching, and shepherding of the church, and gifts are given to build up the body of Christ, at a local biblical church. They are connected in service to Christ and His Word, not as a route to elevate status.

• Bragging and recognition seeking:
When gifts are treated as special by Charismatics, it opens the door for a self righteous, prideful, status-seeking, and self-promotion mentality. People may pursue “supernatural” gifts or spiritual experiences to appear spiritually superior, which Scripture repeatedly warns against (1 Corinthians 12–14 emphasizes love over gifts, humility over status). These charlatans claim they have gifts... God never gave them. These pretenders salvation is actually in question, cuz no true believer would behave this way, lie and grieve the true Holy Spirit, if He was in them.

• Distortion of Scripture:
When gifts are elevated above others, such as Offices, Charismatic leaders may teach in ways that distort biblical truth to justify their practices (e.g., the idea of modern apostles or prophets who operate outside biblical oversight). Thus these distortions occur because they separate the “who” (person in authority) from the “do” (exercise of gifts), creating a system not found in Scripture.

• Equality of believers:
Biblically, all believers are equal in Christ, though gifted differently for the common good (1 Corinthians 12:7). Elevating some through visible or spectacular gifts undermines this biblical equality.

Biblically the truth is the charismatics separation of office and gifts as both unscriptural and spiritually dangerous because it can lead to pride, false teaching, holding someone of a [professed] Office in a position to tell you what to believe, and a focus on experience rather than obedience to the authoritative & revealed truths in God’s Word.

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For future encounters with these confused people (due to recieving false teachings) here's some suggestions:

1. Discern the situation quickly

When someone approaches you with strong Pentecostal/charismatic language (apostle, prophet, visions, etc.), you can usually tell right away where it’s headed. Instead of engaging deeply, you might gently set a boundary:

💥This is such an interesting topic, but I'm in a rush right now, I would love to discuss it & your thoughts on this tho. [Air drop or email]. It was nice to meet you.

.... * and leave.

💥“I believe Scripture is sufficient and authoritative, and I don’t follow modern claims of apostles or prophets.”

If they press further, you can disengage politely: “I don’t think we’ll agree on this, but I wish you well.”✝️

😉That saves your energy and avoids feeding their desire to debate or dominate. (Titus 3:9 – avoid foolish controversies… they are unprofitable and worthless).

🙂You did give the right cessationist grounding: the temporary nature of sign-gifts until Scripture was complete (1 Cor. 13:8–10; Heb. 2:3–4; Jude 3).

But here’s the key: people who are entrenched in charismatic theology usually don’t have ears for that explanation. They’ll either:

Brush it off (“That’s your interpretation”), or

Get combative like this man did.

That’s why, in hindsight, you don’t really need to push further once you’ve made that statement. The moment you said:

“Those gifts were only for a time, until the Word of God was complete. We have the Bible now, God’s full revelation.”

— you actually gave a perfectly biblical and sufficient answer. At that point, the best move would’ve been to leave it there, rather than try to win the debate.

Think of it like this:

Your role: Speak the truth once, clearly.

God’s role: Open ears or harden hearts (2 Cor. 2:15–16).

✨ In other words: you planted the seed. Even if he ranted on, others (his wife, the receptionists, the waiting man) heard the contrast:

His chaos vs. your calm clarity.

His rant vs. your Scripture-based statement.

That may stick with them far more than a drawn-out argument would have.

You could've closed by saying

"Brother, I dont think we will agree on this issue, so for the sake of those around us, lets agree to disagree, but always be going deeper in the Word to learn".

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2. Anchor in essentials, not denominational rabbit trails

You did well to stress that all true Christians hold to the essentials of the Gospel. That’s solid ground. But once he claimed “Apostle,” you were pulled into side-issues (offices, church gifts, his supposed authority).

A more streamlined response could be:

💥“The Bible says the foundation was laid by Christ and His Apostles (Eph. 2:20). That foundation isn’t ongoing. We build on it now by proclaiming Christ crucified and risen.”

Then stop. Don’t chase his definitions.

That puts the weight on Scripture, not back-and-forth rebuttals.

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3. Recognize the pride and shut it down

When someone is clearly prideful, combative, and not listening, the biblical pattern is to disengage:

Jesus: “Do not throw your pearls before swine” (Matt. 7:6).

Paul: “Warn a divisive person once, then twice, then have nothing more to do with him” (Titus 3:10).

You don’t owe such a person a full theological treatise. 💥Saying “Sir, you are not listening, so I’m going to step away now” is perfectly biblical.

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4. Consider the audience

You rightly noted the receptionist, the waiting man, and the wife were watching. In such cases, your calmness and brevity is your witness. They’ll see the contrast between his ranting and your steady spirit.

Instead of arguing point-by-point, you could have left them with one clear, non-negotiable truth:

💥“Jesus is God, the eternal Son, risen, reigning in heaven, and is coming again. That’s the hope of all believers.”

Then walk away. That’s enough for bystanders to know where you stand.

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5. Trust God with the wife

It’s natural to feel sympathy for her. But if you try to turn to her mid-conversation, it could come across as dismissive or even provoke him more. The best witness for her may have been simply your steady demeanor. God can use that to stir her later.

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6. On calling him to repent

You weren’t wrong to rebuke him — but sometimes public rebuke to a fool just feeds their fire. Proverbs 26 gives us both sides:

“Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.”

“Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.”

That takes discernment in the moment. In hindsight.

But you were desiring folk around you listening to not be pulled into falsehoods the man was saying. So it was cautiously used.

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Your heart was not to “fight” but to stand firm and call him toward truth. You weren’t trying to thunder down a “rebuke,” you were trying to correct gently, as Scripture calls us to do (2 Tim. 2:24–26).

From your description, it sounds like you wanted to do what Whitfield and Wesley modeled — firm disagreement but with love/charity, leaving the door open for God to work. That’s a solid aim.

Here’s how you could frame it, in that spirit, if you find yourself in a similar moment again:

1. Clarify truth, but keep it simple

💥“Brother, I Scripture declares those gifts were temporary, given until Scripture was complete. Today we have the Bible — God’s full revelation.”

That plants the flag without inviting an endless debate.

2. Correct without sounding harsh

Instead of saying “I rebuke you,” you might say:

💥“I think you’ve been misled here, and I encourage you to test everything by Scripture.”

💥“That doesn’t line up with what the Bible teaches — I’d urge you to look again at what God says.”

That points him back to God’s Word rather than to you as his opponent.

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3. On attitude, not just doctrine

If he’s ranting and not listening, you could gently call that out without escalating:

💥“Brother, the way we speak matters too — truth and love always go together.”

💥“I’d be glad to talk if we can listen to each other, but right now you feel combative.”

That way you’re not dismissing him, but you’re setting a biblical expectation for how Christians should interact (Eph. 4:15, James 1:19–20).

4. Exit graciously

If he won’t calm down, you can leave in a way that keeps your testimony clear:

💥“I’ve said what Scripture teaches, I'd be glad to explain, but I don’t want to argue. I pray God open your eyes to His truth, and give you a heart that is open to examine it as the Bereans did. I hope our convo drives you to deep dive into the Scriptures.”

That leaves the last note as prayerful and God-centered, not combative.

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⚖️ In short: you did the right thing by standing firm and not raising your voice. Next time, you might just streamline it — state truth once, correct gently, and exit with grace. That way the bystanders (and even his wife) clearly see: he was ranting, you were steady; he exalted himself, you lifted Scripture.

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Examining the man's probable beliefs and why hes holding to false teachings.

Below (1) describe the likely beliefs/patterns his words fit, (2) explain why those beliefs lead him to say things like “Jesus is here now” or “I talked with Peter,” and (3) give short, calm, biblical counters for future encounters like this. I’ll stay charitable — I can’t know his exact label, only the theological family his comments most resemble.

1) Belief-patterns his comments fit

A. Hyper-charismatic / Restorationist (modern “apostles & prophets”)

Signs: claiming to be an “Apostle,” insisting on contemporary apostles/prophets, being certain of immediate revelations, insisting private revelation or ongoing office-titles give authority.

This group treats apostolic/prophetic offices as active today and often elevates personal experience/testimony above (or alongside) settled interpretation.

B. Oneness / Non-Trinitarian Pentecostal tendencies

Signs: language like “God birthed Jesus” or implying Jesus was created or is not the eternal second Person of the Trinity. Oneness groups often speak of Jesus and the Father interchangeably and reject the orthodox three-person Trinity formulation.

C. Subordinationist / Arian echo (created/derived Son)

Signs: phrasing that suggests Jesus had a beginning or was originated by the Father. (This is classical Arian thinking — modern forms appear in some sects/teachers and in Jehovah’s Witness theology, though JWs have other distinct markers.)

D. Experiential “Jesus-present” language (spiritualized return)

Signs: speaking as if Jesus has already “returned” because of a spiritual manifestation, visions, or because they sense Christ’s presence strongly. This is sometimes used by charismatics to describe a revival or a prophetic visitation — and can be conflated with a literal, physical return.

E. Poor catechesis / eccentric teacher influence

Sometimes it’s not a clean label: people repeat odd metaphors they learned (e.g., “birthed”) without careful theology. Combine that with pride and performance and you get the behavior you described.

2) How those false beliefs produce the statements you heard

• “Jesus did return, since he talked with Peter” — could mean:

• He thinks a post-resurrection visitation or a vision constituted a return that began Christ’s present earthly reign (misreading visitation/appearances vs. Second Coming).

• Or he believes modern men like “Peter” (or a contemporary figure called “Peter”) received direct revelation from Jesus, which he treats as proof Jesus is actively ruling among them now.

• Or he’s using “return” in a spiritual sense (Jesus “returned in power” to a meeting), then slips into equivocal language that sounds like a physical, visible return.

• “God birthed Jesus” / creation language — suggests:

• He may be hearing or repeating unorthodox metaphors that collapse the distinctions in the Trinity, or he may actually have been taught a non-Trinitarian/created-Son view (Oneness/ Arian-like).

• In either case, that language undermines orthodox Christology (eternality, uncreated deity).

• Claiming apostleship + ranting when challenged — suggests:

• A restorationist mentality: modern leaders claim statuses that grant them personal authority and immunity from correction; challenge to that authority is met with defensiveness and aggression, not humble debate.

3) Short biblical responses/corrections (calm, concise, non-combative)

Use these to state truth without escalating:

• On the apostleship/gift question:

💥“Scripture says the foundation was laid by Christ and the apostles (Eph. 2:20). Those foundation offices served to establish the church and the canon. We now have the complete Word of God.”

• On Jesus’ return vs. appearances:

💥“Jesus appeared after His resurrection and then He ascended (Acts 1:9–11). The Bible also teaches He will come visibly and bodily at the end (1 Thess. 4:16–17). Those two things are not the same.”

• On the deity/origin of Christ:

💥“The Bible affirms Jesus is the eternal Word — not a created being (John 1:1–3; Hebrews 1). That’s essential to the gospel.”

• On manner of speaking / attitude:

💥“Truth and love go together. I’m happy to discuss differences if we can listen to one another, and test everything by Scripture (Acts 17:11).”

4) The likely theological categories (to keep in mind)

• Hyper-charismatic / Restorationist (modern apostles & prophets)

• Oneness Pentecostal / Non-Trinitarian language

• Subordinationist/Arian echoes (created Son language)

• Spiritualized/experiential language that confuses a ‘spiritual visitation’ with the Second Coming

💥You can say, “From what you just said, it sounds like either a restorationist/charismatic view or a non-Trinitarian view. Those are significant differences from historic Christianity.”

5) If you’d call him out on doctrine (firm but charitable phrasing)

💥• “Sir, that language about Jesus being ‘birthed’ sounds non-Trinitarian. The Bible teaches Christ is eternal and uncreated. We need to get that right for the gospel.”

💥• “Claiming Apostleship today is a serious claim. Scripture teaches The Apostles were foundational and unique (Eph. 2:20). I’d urge you to test that carefully by Scripture.”

6) Why you should rightly remain cautious about declaring them lost

You’re right to be cautious: you can call out false teaching without definitively assigning salvation status. People can be sincerely deceived. Scripturally, we correct and warn (Titus 1–3, 2 Tim. 3–4) while ultimately leaving final judgment to God.

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💥VERSES to memorize for convos💥

1. Jesus

The eternal Word; Jesus - is not created!

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

*This verse emphasizes the eternal divine nature of Jesus Christ as the Word.

Colossians 1:1-5

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation". This is key, as "firstborn" indicates preeminence and not simply being the first thing created, showing he was present before and over all creation.

Hebrews1:3:

"Who being the radiance of his glory and the exact epresentation of his being, and upholding all things by the word of his power, after he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high". This demonstrates Christ's divine nature and his position of authority nd power at the Father's right hand.

Colossians 1:16-17:

"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities- all things were created through him and for him,

John 1:18 states, "No one has ever seen God; the one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father's side, has made him known

2. On apostles

All are lowercase apostles:

In the New Testament, the word “apostle” (Greek: ἀπόστολος, apostolos) literally means “one who is sent.” It is usually used in a more formal sense for the Twelve (plus Paul and a few others, e.g., Barnabas in Acts 14:14), rather than for all believers. But in the broader sense, all Christians are “sent” into the world to bear witness to Christ.

Here’s what Scripture shows:

Passages using “apostle” in a wider sense

Acts 14:14 – Barnabas and Paul are both called apostles, showing the title was not strictly for the Twelve.

Romans 16:7 – Andronicus and Junia are “outstanding among the apostles.”

1 Thessalonians 2:6 – Paul speaks of himself, Silvanus, and Timothy as apostles.

This suggests a somewhat broader category than just the original Twelve.

3. Passages where all believers are described as sent / commissioned

These don’t always use the word “apostle,” but they carry the same functional meaning:

John 20:21 – “As the Father has sent me, I also send you.” (This is the apostolic idea at its core.)

Matthew 28:19–20 – The Great Commission: all disciples are told to go, make disciples, baptize, and teach.

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

✝️All believers share in the apostolic mission (sentness), which is why the church is called “apostolic” in the creeds.

Protestant-accepted writings calling believers “apostolic”.

Protestants only accept Scripture as authoritative, but they may respect some early church writings.

The office of Apostle (capital-A) was limited to the Twelve + Paul (Acts 1:21–22, 1 Cor 9:1). [-Judas / replaced with Mattias]

The church is apostolic in the sense of being “sent” (John 20:21) and carrying the apostles’ teaching (Acts 2:42).

So in summary Protestants will say:

●We are all disciples (learners and followers).

●We are all ambassadors (representatives, 2 Cor 5:20).

●We are all sent ones (John 20:21), which is the spirit of apostolic mission.

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💥Non-Twelve “apostles” in the NT💥

1. Barnabas

Acts 14:14 – “But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments…”

👉 Barnabas, not one of the Twelve, is explicitly called an apostle.

2. Andronicus and Junia

Romans 16:7 – “Greet Andronicus and Junia…they are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.”

👉 This verse recognizes a missionary couple as apostles. (There’s debate on whether it means they were apostles or were well known to the apostles, but many scholars take it as the former.)

3. Silas (Silvanus) and Timothy

1 Thessalonians 2:6 – “Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.”

👉 The “we” here is Paul, Silas, and Timothy (from 1 Thess 1:1). That suggests Silas and Timothy were considered apostles too.

4. Possibly Apollos?

Not directly called an apostle, but some traditions see him as one because of his missionary work (see 1 Cor 4:9).

The broader “sent” idea:

John 20:21 – “As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”

👉 Every believer is “sent,” which is the root meaning of apostolos.

Philippians 2:25 – Epaphroditus is called “your messenger” (apostolos in Greek). Most English translations render it as “messenger,” but it’s the same word.

✅ Summary

So in Scripture itself:

Barnabas, Andronicus, Junia, Silas, Timothy, Epaphroditus are all referred to with apostolos.

This shows the term was broader than the Twelve, but not universally applied to every believer.

For all Christians, the NT uses other terms: disciples (Matt 28:19), ambassadors (2 Cor 5:20), witnesses (Acts 1:8).

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💥Early Church Fathers💥

The Church is “Apostolic”

From the very beginning, the church confessed in the Creeds:

1. The Nicene Creed (325/381)

“We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic church.”

● Shows the universal Christian belief that the church is built on the apostles’ teaching.

👉 Here “apostolic” doesn’t mean every Christian is an apostle, but that the whole church is built on the apostles’ teaching and continues their mission. Protestants affirm this.

Note: catholic with lower case "c" means universal. It has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic religion.

2. Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD)

In 1 Clement, written to the Corinthian church:

Clement says the apostles appointed leaders and passed on authority for the church’s mission.

Quote (1 Clem. 42):

> “The apostles received the gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ… having received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ… they went out with the full assurance of the Holy Spirit preaching the good news that the kingdom of God was about to come.”

👉 This emphasizes the apostles’ sending, but also that the whole church inherits their teaching and mission.

3. The Didache (c. 1st–2nd century)

This early church manual speaks of apostles as traveling missionaries:

Didache 11:4:

> “Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord.”

👉 It shows there were still “apostles” beyond the Twelve — basically traveling preachers and church planters. Protestants usually don’t treat the Didache as Scripture, but they see it as valuable history.

4. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD)

Ignatius repeatedly stresses that the church’s role is to remain in unity with Christ and the Apostles’ teaching.

In his letter to the Magnesians (7:1), he says:

> “Be eager, therefore, to be firmly grounded in the decrees of the Lord and the Apostles.”

👉 Not really calling every Christian an apostle, but making the whole community apostolic by staying faithful to what was handed down.

So here’s the bottom line, tying it all together:

● The Bible never specifically says all Christians are apostles. Instead:

A few people outside the Twelve (Barnabas, Andronicus, Junia, Silas, Timothy, Epaphroditus) are called apostolos (“sent ones”).

All Christians are called disciples (Matt 28:19–20), ambassadors (2 Cor 5:20), witnesses (Acts 1:8), and the “sent” ones of Christ (John 20:21).

🏛 The early church (Clement, Ignatius, Didache, Nicene Creed) taught:

The office of Apostle was unique (the Twelve + Paul).

The church itself is apostolic because it continues in the Apostles’ teaching and mission.

Traveling missionaries were sometimes still called “apostles,” but that faded out.

✝️ Christians [aka Protestants]:

Agree, the Apostolic office ended with the first generation.

But the whole church remains apostolic (sent, missionary, grounded in Scripture).

So they don’t say we are all apostles, but they do say we all share in the apostolic mission.

5. Protestant perspective

The Reformers (like Calvin, Luther, etc.) [Where protestantism came from] agreed that the office of Apostle ended with the first generation (the Twelve + Paul).

But they also said the whole church continues the Apostles’ mission — proclaiming Christ, teaching faithfully, and being “sent.”

That’s why Protestants affirm the creed’s phrase “apostolic church,” while being careful not to say “all are apostles.”

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A one pager of facts

Understanding Biblical Truth: Apostles, Gifts, and Christ

1. Spiritual Gifts

The Bible teaches that miraculous gifts (healing, prophecy, tongues, apostleship) were given for a time to establish the early church and confirm God’s message (Hebrews 2:3–4; 1 Corinthians 13:8–10).

Today, we have the complete Word of God. These extraordinary offices are no longer necessary because Scripture is sufficient (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

2. Apostolic Office

The apostles were unique: chosen by Christ, taught and sent by Him, and eyewitnesses of His resurrection (Ephesians 2:20; Acts 1:21–22).

Modern claims to apostleship are not supported by Scripture. The foundation has already been laid; all believers are called to serve faithfully, but the apostolic office does not continue today.

3. The Deity and Return of Christ

The Eternal Word; Jesus, is fully God, eternal, uncreated, and one with the Father (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:15–17; Hebrews 1:3). And is of the triune Godhead. 💥

He appeared bodily after His resurrection, then ascended into Heaven (Acts 1:9–11).

His visible, bodily return is future, at the end of the age (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). Claims that He is currently ruling on earth or that He “returned” in a secret or spiritual sense are inconsistent with Scripture.

Scripture declares He will return visible, be seen by the world, with the whole of Heaven (believers and angels), to reign here for 1,000 years, then usher us into eternity, (stopping for the Bema seat & handling Judgment Day), into the new Earth and new Heaven; forever sin free. And forever in the presence with our Savior.

4. Truth and Love

God calls us to speak truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). Biblical correction is not about pride or argument—it is about helping others see God’s Word accurately and growing in Christlikeness.

Priscilla and Aquila, in Acts 18:24–26 caringly corrected Apollos on his error. He listened, understood, corrected and then went onwards preaching the truth.

We cannot decieve folk nor stop learning and self correcting. We must love and obey God, and part of that is listening, considering if we were taught errors, and if we need to humbly dive deeper into Scripture to make sure we believe and proclaim the truth. Not pridefully shut convos down, nor push our opinions.

5. Encouragement

Test all teaching by Scripture (Acts 17:11). Examine what you hear, and hold firmly to the gospel as revealed in the Bible. The Lord blesses those who seek His truth and follow Him faithfully.

> “All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

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*above is edited

💥Optional for handing out or sharing.💥

*Try to get his email first next time, so you can send it to him from a temp burner email, with a title "Was nice to meet you", and write up something in the convo, and put this under it. Along with links to the examination imfo, books etc for him to further examine encouraging being a Berean.

Understanding Biblical Truth: Apostles, Gifts, and Christ

1. Spiritual Gifts

Miraculous gifts (healing, prophecy, tongues, apostleship) were given temporarily to establish the early church (Hebrews 2:3–4; 1 Corinthians 13:8–10).

Today, the Bible is complete and sufficient (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

Extraordinary offices are no longer necessary; all believers are called to serve faithfully.

2. Apostolic Office

The apostles were unique: chosen by Christ, eyewitnesses of His resurrection, and foundational to the church (Ephesians 2:20; Acts 1:21–22).

Modern claims to apostleship are not supported by Scripture.

Believers today build on the foundation they laid.

3. The Deity and Return of Christ

Deity: Jesus is fully God, eternal, uncreated, and one with the Father (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:15–17; Hebrews 1:3).

Ascension: He appeared bodily after His resurrection, then ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9–11).

Return: His visible, bodily return is future (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). Claims that He is currently ruling on earth or has secretly “returned” contradict Scripture.

4. Truth and Love

Biblical correction is meant to guide, not argue.

God calls us to speak truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).

Teaching without love or humility undermines the gospel and misrepresents Christ.

5. Encouragement

Test all teaching against Scripture (Acts 17:11).

Hold firmly to the gospel as revealed in the Bible.

Seek God’s truth and follow Him faithfully, trusting His Word above all human claims.

> “All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

====

Email....

a smart strategy. Asking for an email gives you control over how and when you communicate, avoids public debate spirals, and lets the person reflect on Scripture in private rather than in a heated elevator exchange. I can suggest a wise, polite way to ask and a subject line that encourages them to open it.

1. How to ask for their email at the start

You want it to feel natural, respectful, and non-confrontational. Some examples:

Polite & direct:

“I appreciate your interest in discussing Scripture. Would you mind if I sent you a short summary by email? That way we can consider it carefully.”

Framing as convenience:

“Sometimes it’s easier to read and reflect on these things in writing. Could I send you a quick email?”

Mutual benefit / spiritual curiosity:

“I have some Bible insights on this topic. Could I share them with you via email so you can read them at your own pace?”

Key points:

Use “could I” rather than “I want” — makes it polite.

Emphasize reflection / consideration, not debate.

Keep it short and natural, don’t launch into content yet.

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2. Email subject line ideas

The goal: catch attention, not trigger defensiveness, and make them curious enough to open it. Avoid words like “rebuke,” “error,” or anything combative.

Some options:

1. “A Short Reflection on Scripture You Might Find Helpful”

Neutral, respectful, piques curiosity.

2. “Thoughts on Apostles, Gifts, and Christ’s Return”

Informative without being confrontational; targets their interests.

3. “Clarifying Some Bible Truths I’ve Found Valuable”

Gentle, personal, shows humility.

4. “A Bible Perspective You Can Reflect On”

Invites reflection; non-threatening.

5. “Scripture Insights for Consideration”

Very neutral; makes it about the Word, not the person.

Tips for the email itself

Keep it short: 1–2 pages max.

Lead with Scripture: Show authority comes from God’s Word, not you.

Be calm and charitable: avoid personal attacks; call attention to doctrinal truths.

Invite reflection, not argument: e.g., “I hope you’ll read and consider these passages and thoughts prayerfully.”

===

Subject: A Short Reflection on Scripture You Might Find Helpful

Dear [Name],

It was good to meet you earlier. I wanted to share a few thoughts from Scripture that I hope you’ll find helpful. My goal is simply to encourage reflection on some biblical truths, not to debate or criticize.

1. Spiritual Gifts

Scripture teaches that miraculous gifts — such as healing, prophecy, speaking in tongues, and apostleship — were given temporarily to establish the early church (Hebrews 2:3–4; 1 Corinthians 13:8–10).

Today, we have the complete Word of God. These extraordinary offices are no longer necessary because Scripture provides everything we need to know about Christ and how to live faithfully (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

2. The Apostolic Office

The apostles were unique: chosen by Christ, taught by Him directly, and eyewitnesses of His resurrection (Ephesians 2:20; Acts 1:21–22). Modern claims to apostleship are not supported by Scripture. All believers today are called to serve faithfully, building on the foundation the apostles laid.

3. The Deity and Return of Christ

Deity: Jesus is fully God, eternal, and uncreated (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:15–17; Hebrews 1:3).

Ascension: He appeared bodily after His resurrection and ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9–11).

Return: His visible, bodily return is future (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). Scripture does not teach that He is currently ruling on earth in a visible way.

---

4. Truth and Love

We are called to speak truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). This means we can discuss differences in understanding while remaining humble, kind, and respectful. I hope this summary reflects that spirit.

---

5. Encouragement

I encourage you to test all teaching by Scripture (Acts 17:11) and hold firmly to the gospel as revealed in the Bible. God blesses those who seek His truth sincerely.

> “All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

Warm regards,
[Your Name]

---

Notes on Delivery

Keep the tone gentle, humble, and educational.

Avoid phrases that could trigger defensiveness (“you are deceived,” “false teacher,” etc.).

Use the email as a seed of reflection, not a confrontation.

=====

Can add this too as bonus:

(Over)Simplified Guide to Discernment,

by Don Green

1. Read Your Bible Daily

“In His law he meditates day and night” (Psalm 1:2)

2. Pray Earnestly

“Pray without ceasing” (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

3. Don’t Believe Everything You Hear

“Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits” (1 John 4:1)

4. See What Everyone Else Is Doing

“Be of sober spirit, be on the alert” (1 Peter 5:8)